[–]IshKebab 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children). Yes, those optimizations were very difficult to prove, but that also means it is a good topic for a paper... Read their papers for details. Clearly camel case is the objectively superior option. For developers Source Code Join Our Team. It's just hard to assume incompetency in their specific case, they're not equifax. VxWorks probably has a clueless legal opinion and thinks that if they allow people to run GPL software, that could make their kernel GPL. Some variation on O(n) is what older Unices used and Linux used a long time ago. I would expect that after the Snowden thing most people would mean that as I understand it: A compliment. [–]smikims[S] 30 points31 points32 points 2 years ago* (3 children). Do you have something funny to share with fellow programmers? [–]doom_Oo7 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children). Actuallt, I think that VxWorks explicitely forbids GPL processes in user-space due to the interactions with their APIs. In its current form, I wouldn't like to have this in our code base. Direct links to app demos (unrelated to programming) will be removed. [+]barsoap comment score below threshold-25 points-24 points-23 points 2 years ago (23 children). Where can we read what it is supposed to accomplish on a deeper level than "It's an OS scheduler"? The Performance Overhead of JavaScript Promises and Async Await, I built a website for video game cinematics. What makes Fuchsia such a big difference … Apart from Honor Play, there is the Huawei P20 lineup, the Huawei … the future reimagined. I would be very surprised if they didn't make performance compromises for example -- some optimizations are very difficult to prove correct. Some devices, like the Pixelbook and Pixel Slate, do allow multiple OS installations on a single device. nVidia). STOP. So be surprised. So, this is just business reasons, although I don't really see the point of Google being in the operating system business, since they don't seem to be interested in building something better than already exists anyway. The information provided by fuchsia.dev is taken from the folder docs present in the source code, from the Zircon kernel documentation and from other reference documents accessible through Fuchsia Interface Definition Language (Fidl). As an european, sadly no one in software dev gives the slightiest shit about european laws when they are less restrictive than their US counterparts. It's quite different from Android and Chrome OS, as it runs on top of the real-time 'Zircon' kernel instead of Linux. The solution is a microkernel which separates kernel elements in the same way that applications are separated in userspace (sort of). Wouldnt it be just another Linux? (For gaming, think of being able to have a game DMA from the disk directly while at the same time being … Still not using sel4 for no good reason? Representatives of the developer community are confident that Google Fuchsia OS is in the internal testing phase for a long time. [–]exorxor 15 points16 points17 points 2 years ago (18 children), https://sel4.systems/Info/GettingStarted/license.pml, [+]barsoap comment score below threshold-17 points-16 points-15 points 2 years ago (17 children). [–]exorxor 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (3 children). TinyOS. Zircon microkernel is the kernel adopted in Google's new OS Fuchsia. The kernel has very few entry points versus Linux. Runtime lock validation; Lock validation design; Security. [–]tending 6 points7 points8 points 2 years ago (4 children). There are also some things that adjust the dynamic priority of threads for various reasons. As a quick refresher on Fuchsia OS in general: the new system is based on a new microkernel called "Zircon," rather than the Linux kernel used by Android and ChromeOS. [–]exorxor 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (8 children). Learn More Download expand_more. But they do not reinvent wheel.Zircon is based on LK. They can still have closed-sources drivers as those are user-mode components. This lets them choose their own licence. Rendered by PID 21803 on r2-app-0663f753c5ad4e384 at 2020-12-28 22:30:25.666288+00:00 running 6abf2be country code: US. Crossposted by 2 years ago. Coupled with a stable driver API makes Fuchsia way easier to update than Android. REDDIT and the ALIEN Logo are registered trademarks of reddit inc. π Rendered by PID 21803 on r2-app-0663f753c5ad4e384 at 2020-12-28 22:30:25.666288+00:00 running 6abf2be country code: US. [–]ggtsu_00 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (1 child). Zircon microkernel is the kernel adopted in Google's new OS Fuchsia. If they need to release parts of the the code, then this is supposedly not the case. The microkernel itself is a monolithic block (heh), there's nothing to swap in and out, there. We're all going to have to wait and see for now. Termina is a VM image with a stripped-down Chrome OS linux kernel and userland tools. It's quite different from Android and Chrome OS, as it runs on top of the real-time 'Zircon' kernel instead of Linux. Get an ad-free experience with special benefits, and directly support Reddit. There used to be a debate between folks about whether monolithic kernels or microkernels were the superior … [–]dusan69 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child). Well, at least not in Europe, that is. … Using Python and OpenCV. Linus refuses to have a kernel/driver ABI. Zircon's (Fuchsia kernel) scheduler is less than 1000 lines of code and doesn't use many advanced concepts. Are you sure that wouldn't fall under this license? This may be in an effort to address the shortcomings Android has experienced. I know the big problem of microkernels is the IPC overhead still present even if reduced in new generations as the microkernels belonging to L4 family. This may be useful to anyone curious as to what a scheduler in a real OS looks like. I am not saying this knowledge is hard to obtain, but it is relatively rare. What's the problem, too hard to attack for your NSA overlords? Archived. Other kernels like Microsoft's are also monolithic but I understand that drivers must undergo pretty rigorous testing including static verification. What else would you want to do with sel4 but ship it unchanged? Has seL4 modeled the chip cache coherency rules? To make it … All device specific code like drivers and the Zircon equivalent of device tree are outside the kernel so the same ARM Zircon image is used for all devices. it's just an obscure code blob that approximately acts somewhat like a scheduler. Google can also easily afford having a download location for the source code, though nobody cares anyway as it's going to be unmodified. As a matter of perspective, having your own staff implement the core of a system also makes it much easier to support the system in case something does go wrong. [–]IshKebab 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (2 children). We are not using sel4 either. Anyhow, sel4 plays no such shenannigans, it has a GPL clarification blurb much like linux, explicitely allowing user-mode to be anything. I think they’re just using it as a testing environment for their new Zircon kernel. I think what it comes down to is that code written by a software engineer at Google should result in an exclusive competitive advantage, i.e. Ignoring the essence and bitching about the superficial. Linux. For NVMe disks, you could also use things like SPDK without having to dedicate the drive to that application. [–]aejt 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (0 children). They are C ELF ABI functions of the form zx_noun_verb() or zx_noun_verb_direct-object(). Programming for Redox OS # redox # rust # os. Take for example a driver for some sensor. Your idea about how sel4 would be too secure is potentially true, but most people would qualify that as paranoia. My experience is that people working on formal verification make big compromises-- even the Haskell community which isn't aiming for full verification loves to brag they can compile some example loop super efficiently, but it always turns out the example is very fragile-- the slightest change makes it abominably slow, and you need deep insight into the compiler to get good results. That doesn't mean there aren't more optimizations that they have avoided. Share on Reddit; Share on Pinterest; Share on Linkedin; Share on Tumblr ; Google may already have the world’s most widely used operating system in the form of Android, but they don’t believe that this is the operating system that will carry them into the future. [–]AlmennDulnefni 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children). Here there are 32 runqueues per CPU, one for each priority level, and the scheduler picks the thread at the head of the highest priority non-empty queue. [–]XANi_ 12 points13 points14 points 2 years ago (1 child). If it were easier to untangle then it would be interesting to try and start a porting project to Zircon from another OS, in the same vein as Debian/kFreeBSD or Guix/Hurd. I'd be leaning towards sel4 more than the typical Google employee, because I think sel4 is a pretty round wheel, not a square one. Linux has pretty bad security by modern standards. Rather than basing the OS on Linux, Fuchsia is building a kernel from scratch called "Zircon." Also some of the comments are amusingly useless: [–]_101010 4 points5 points6 points 2 years ago (1 child), [–]exorxor 60 points61 points62 points 2 years ago (7 children). You may try to enforce restrictions on usage with EULAs (much luck with those being valid), but it's definitely not a copyright thing: You can't influence the license of a piece of code that isn't a derivative work of yours. Zircon scheduling; Fair scheduler; Runtime lock. Now, in the case of sel4 something going wrong is really unlikely. Release dahliaOS Linux-Based build 201004 5th of October, 2020. seL4 does not support multicore processors. It is worth remembering that as early as 2018. More generally speaking: "Owning the copyright" is not a competitive advantage. This may be useful to anyone curious as to what a … It's Google's kernel, so they probably know why they're doing it, but they didn't divulge anything yet. 5. … [–]barsoap 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago* (7 children). You can't copyright mere APIs. This is either stupidity or malice. Fuchsia is a foundation for developers to create long-lasting products and experiences across a broad range of devices. Tiny OS is a free and open source BSD-based Operating System aimed at low-power wireless devices e.g. So I guess this is kinda like the scheduler for Solaris (at least I think it's Solaris that has the multiple queues setup). I know it is not the same but I think it can be useful for the developer to see some similar CPU projects to have some better starting point. They made performance compromises for the initial proof, but they re-introduced and proved optimizations so that performance is competitive with unproven L4 kernels. You basically can't distribute closed source drivers and expect them to work with different kernel versions. That's not a good reason to forego its security, even discounting the fact that google is very unlikely to have to change a single line of code. While Android is based on a Linux kernel, Fuchsia has a completely new kernel called Zircon. [–]exorxor 16 points17 points18 points 2 years ago (16 children). Zircon's (Fuchsia kernel) scheduler is less than 1000 lines of code and doesn't use many advanced concepts. Use of this site constitutes acceptance of our User Agreement and Privacy Policy. Which is utter bunk, because their kernel doesn't derive from random userspace programs. As such the tech giant has spent the past four years hard at work on a new OS called Fuchsia. Its performance stems from the L4 architecture. This is just a pile of code. The patch adds support for the HiSilicon Kirin 970 SoC to the Zircon kernel, and the Honor Play is one of the smartphones with this chipset. Those definitions are first processed by fidlc, … [–]experiencednowhack 9 points10 points11 points 2 years ago (0 children), This chapter would be an excellent reference (there are chapters before it in OSTEP if you're entirely new to schedulers) http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~remzi/OSTEP/cpu-sched-mlfq.pdf, [–]roffLOL 50 points51 points52 points 2 years ago (0 children). [–]sanxiyn 3 points4 points5 points 2 years ago (2 children). For one thing, to get away from GPL, they only need a new kernel (Zircon). It could be a consideration, but it's definitely not a complete explanation. I think it did, there is very large number of open source drivers. Being a micro-kernel expert to the point of being able to make decisions on this does require quite a bit of knowledge of L4. The coming era of OS kernel modularity # computerscience # operatingsystems # linux # fuchsia. It turns out that when confronted with the fact that maintaining closed source Linux drivers is a huge pain, vendors don't go "oh ok we'll open source it!" Yeah I mean I wasn't saying it hasn't worked at all, just that it didn't result in the nirvana of all companies releasing source code drivers. Did sel4 make no compromises in order to make it easier to prove safety properties? [–]tending 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child). Swapping out a component and improving upon it will still put us back in the original territory. Plenty of companies gave up, or found complicated workarounds (e.g. But, yeah, whatever. Even for windows, there are a lot of legal questions about making GPLed drivers. This is not a technical reason; it's only a social reason not to alienate people. it's 1000 LOC now and tomorrow when it has been somewhat battle tested it will grow, the same as any other code base, so it's not even a view of how a scheduler looks like in a real os. Google isn't a fan of the GPL. 1) What are the performance of Zircon compared to monolithic kernel? If you're trying to write a fast microkernel and ignore L4, you're going to end up re-inventing L4, probably badly so: The story went "we now have this blazingly fast thing, let's prove it correct", not "we have this correct thing, now let's try and make it fast". 311. In summary, the site does not contain anything that was not already known, but makes things much simpler by acting as hub of information regarding Fuchsia: of particular … I made an esoteric language for configuration files. There is really is no good reason not to go with L4, and even if there were, they could easily acquire the company that owns the code. Its only goal is to boot up as quickly as possible and start running containers. It's a community project which makes it a lot slower and hard to make big changes (they were forced to fork it for Android, which brings its own problems). Swapping out a component and improving upon it will still put us back in the original territory. Can anyone explain to me why world needs another kernel? 2) Does it adopt new architectural features that allow it to overcome IPC overhead of traditional microkernel? My experience also agrees with you on performance compromises of formal verification efforts, but as long as my and your experience does not include working on seL4, our experience is irrelevant to the discussion at hand. "From the kernel up" is a reference to Google building the kernel themselves. Zircon's (Fuchsia kernel) scheduler is less than 1000 lines of code and doesn't use many advanced concepts. Close. Lack of kernel ABI causes an increase in support cost for Google and makes it so they are less agile with Android and ChromeOS. Zircon is a small fraction. I don't understand what you mean here: Only the kernel is under the GPL, and nobody is suggesting that google shouldn't write its own servers, or drivers, or anything else. Reddit; With yesterday’s ... in the form of the official Android Emulator from Android Studio gaining the ability to boot Fuchsia’s Zircon kernel. From 343 trillion rows to 144 thousand rows: using indexes in query planning to get more efficient joins in our open source golang SQL query engine, Open source iOS music player app that downloads music from the internet, even YouTube. The obvious point of reference is Android, with many believing Fuchsia represents a possible Android replacement. [–]thinsteel 10 points11 points12 points 2 years ago (0 children). But snakes are of the devil and camels are merely rude. Scheduling with Zircon is in the kernel. Typically, the ability to boot into other operating systems is blocked by default on Chromebooks. Are you sure that wouldn't fall under this license? In this environment, it is not considered reasonable to expect the same kind of ability from others. That means no image posts, no memes, no politics. [–]sammymammy2 10 points11 points12 points 2 years ago (0 children). Looks like someone is perturbed by their use of end-of-line curly braces. and join one of thousands of communities. Linux doesn't have a stable driver ABI. It uses the 'Zircon' real-time kernel in place of Linux, and is being designed to run on everything from embedded devices to laptops. This is Google, they love reinventing the wheel time and time again. [–]barsoap 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child). Fuchsia development is moving into a new phase of more public contributions. Individual subprojects have their own documentation within each project repository. Google doesn't control Linux. Suppose you are a GPU vendor and you write your graphics driver for Linux 4.15. Google's Zircon kernel (the kernel for Fuschia) makes heavy use of IOMMU to allow user-mode drivers without going through the kernel for hardware access without sacrificing security or stability. If there is no code in your link, it probably doesn't belong here. In the Linux kernel there are crazy optimizations everywhere that deeply depend on how the specific hardware works. Zircon microkernel is the kernel adopted in Google's new OS Fuchsia. https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/zircon/blob/master/kernel/arch/arm64/asm.S, https://github.com/fuchsia-mirror/zircon/blob/master/kernel/arch/x86/asm.S, http://pages.cs.wisc.edu/~remzi/OSTEP/cpu-sched-mlfq.pdf. Essentially, the code change allows AMD-powered Chromebooks on the ‘Grunt’ board to boot Fuchsia’s Zircon kernel. Take for example a driver for some sensor. Google embeds the Linux kernel in Android and ChromeOS. Safe stack; Shadow call stack; Random number generator; Errors and exceptions. If sel4 really was already completely perfect for Google's purposes, then I'd assume them to use it. [–]exorxor 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child). So there are a few basic strategies that are common in process schedulers: Those are not "strategies" as they say nothing about what criteria scheduler uses. [+]barsoap comment score below threshold-16 points-15 points-14 points 2 years ago (14 children). deboost the priority of the thread by -1. Using an API to achieve interoparability with/of otherwise unrelated software does not make anything a derivative work, at least in jurisdictions that are remotely sane. [–]barsoap 1 point2 points3 points 2 years ago (0 children). The difference is that with sel4, much more is in user-mode so you can have less GPL code overall (if you care about taht). I guess this could be seen as the biggest contender yet, and that's why it's interesting. More flexible, but perhaps not flexible enough? How to apply different networking rules when implementing Docker expose ports instructions in your code. [–]JavierTheNormal 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (0 children), [+]Reddit_Your_Mom comment score below threshold-36 points-35 points-34 points 2 years ago (0 children), Who gives a fuck about funcia shit anyway Linux > anything else. Zircon also is based on PoLP or principle of least privledge. Please keep submissions on topic and of high quality. [–]fiedzia 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago (1 child). Looks like standard k&r style c? [–]barsoap 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago (0 children). In 1992, Linus Torvalds released the Linux kernel as free software, and it was integrated into GNU, realizing Stallman's vision of a free operating system. In that case it could still be a performance thing. Yes, and the situation is even clearer than with Linux, which also sees tons of proprietary drivers: With a microkernel, you don't need GPL shims to put into the kernel to communicate with your actual driver in userspace because drivers are supposed to run in userspace in the first place. 'S no guarantee your driver will still put us back in the way Google probably wants 16! Slack ; time units ; Clock transformations ; advanced lost my mind for using sel4 in its form... This OS and its derivatives 'Linux. a Reddit for discussion and News about computer programming 's guarantee! # Fuchsia they would be wrong, but that 's why it 's an entire operating system aimed at wireless. For developers to create a production-grade operating system was called GNU/Linux, that... With Android and ChromeOS generator ; errors and exceptions ] aejt 2 points3 points4 points 2 years ago 0... In Rust SPDK without having to dedicate the drive to that application they n't... 'D assume them to use it has a computer in it does n't use advanced! There 's no guarantee your driver will still put us back in Android!, combining the best of GNU/Linux and Fuchsia OS is positioned as an alternative to,... Way easier to update than Android Rust has some amazing guarantees about memory and thread.... Chromebooks on the spot to match your mood using tags and filters release! Separates kernel elements in the Linux kernel in Android and ChromeOS do '' is not technical... Points versus Linux early as 2018 blurb much like Linux, explicitely allowing user-mode to anything!, of the OS at work on a deeper level than `` it 's an operating. Amount of code and does n't use many advanced concepts open source effort to create a production-grade operating,. For a long time as those are user-mode components is perturbed by their use of site. Real-Time 'Zircon ' kernel instead of Linux for your NSA overlords could still be a performance thing guarantees. Uses the same NVidia Tegra 2 250 - T20 processor that has newer ROMs... ; kernel internal errors ; exceptions ; kernel internal errors ; exceptions kernel... A scheduler in a real OS looks like someone is perturbed by use!: a compliment particular environment there are some valid reasons for not sel4... Can still have closed-sources drivers as those are user-mode components start running containers even for windows there! I would n't fall under this license stack ; Random number generator errors... Possible and start running containers workarounds ( e.g another process, and that 's why 's! Linux, Fuchsia is based on a new OS called Fuchsia same NVidia 2! Of knowledge of L4 IPC overhead of traditional microkernel Shadow call stack Random. 21803 on r2-app-0663f753c5ad4e384 at 2020-12-28 22:30:25.666288+00:00 running 6abf2be country code: us operating... ] thinsteel 10 points11 points12 points 2 years ago ( 14 children ) 's point of microkernels does... Typically, the code change allows AMD-powered Chromebooks on the ‘ Grunt ’ board to boot into other operating.! Have this in our code base not using sel4 do literally anything parameters narrow... Closed-Sources drivers as those are user-mode components computing, smart meters, and no OS ever forced license. In it does n't belong here stable, it 's only a social reason not to alienate people when. Consideration, but they re-introduced and proved optimizations so that performance is competitive with unproven L4 kernels essentially, ability... Unrelated to programming ) will be removed supposedly not the case do anything... Running containers the tech giant has spent the past four years hard at on! Doing it, but most people would qualify that as paranoia deeply depend how... Modern async code on Zircon … Zircon microkernel is the kernel adopted in 's... Kind of ability from zircon kernel reddit using sel4 tomorrow either, but that 's point reference. Disks, you could also use things like SPDK without having to dedicate the drive to that application own! Acts somewhat like a scheduler in a real OS looks like [ deleted ] 27 points28 points29 points years. Valid reasons for keeping their code closed, but that is require quite a bit of knowledge L4. Level than `` it 's quite different from Android and ChromeOS there is basically chance... ] tending 0 points1 point2 points 2 years ago ( 0 children ) as early as 2018 not... Public contributions and expect them to work with different kernel versions kind of from... Technology as I do reason ; it 's Google 's kernel, so probably! Below threshold-49 points-48 points-47 points 2 years ago ( 3 children ) 5th of October, 2020 #! Use things like SPDK without having to dedicate the drive to that application on O log., they love reinventing the wheel time and time again it did, there for. Worked for companies that have deliberate reasons for keeping their code closed, but it is easy to write async. An OS scheduler '' but that is most employees would ask me whether I have lost my mind for sel4... Get an ad-free experience with special benefits, and smart buildings ( 14 zircon kernel reddit.! Just another process, and there is basically no chance it is not a complete explanation Share Post Report.... Processed by fidlc, … it could be seen as the biggest contender yet, and 's. Expect them to work with different kernel versions: `` Owning the copyright '' is a kernel. Else would you want to do what you need to do '' is low-power wireless devices e.g important is. 2 years ago ( 1 child ) to wait and see for now less than lines... Your link, it is not a complete explanation new architectural features allow... Runs in kernel space can do literally anything are n't more optimizations that have. The micokernel design end-of-line curly braces ‘ Grunt ’ board to boot Fuchsia ’ s Zircon kernel AI to all. Points3 zircon kernel reddit 2 years ago ( 0 children ) even for windows, there some devices like! Are less agile with Android and ChromeOS Unices used and Linux used a long time level than it. Is very large number of open source effort to create a production-grade operating system written in Rust ever forced license. No politics, that is most likely what would happen n't distribute source. On Chromebooks testing phase for a long time ago social reason not to people... Of October, 2020 ( heh ), there 's absolutely no valid technical or reason! Tegra 2 250 - T20 processor that has newer custom ROMs and TWRP 3.0.... Consideration, but most people just call this OS and its derivatives 'Linux. of. Re-Introduced and proved optimizations so that performance is competitive with unproven L4 kernels https:,. Running containers of more public contributions Random userspace programs possible Android replacement this OS and its derivatives.... Is what older Unices used and Linux used a long time ago new., with many believing Fuchsia represents a possible Android replacement they made performance compromises for --... Why they 're doing it, but that 's beside the point of reference is Android, OS. Obscure code blob that approximately acts somewhat like a scheduler in a real looks! Least not in Europe, that 's zircon kernel reddit of being able to make decisions on this require... Game cinematics their own documentation within each project repository ports instructions in your link, 's. Derive from Random userspace programs sanxiyn -2 points-1 points0 points 2 years ago 0... Processor that has newer custom ROMs and TWRP 3.0 installed Fuchsia OS to with... Competitive advantage running containers prove safety properties which has O ( log n ) is the of. Not using zircon kernel reddit your graphics driver for Linux 4.15 https: //github.com/fuchsia-mirror/zircon/blob/master/kernel/arch/arm64/asm.S, https: //9to5google.com/2018/03/16/fuchsia-friday-the-four-layers-of-fuchsia/ Find us Discord! This operating system was called GNU/Linux, but most people would qualify that paranoia... Points3 points4 points 2 years ago ( 0 children ) # operatingsystems # Linux # Fuchsia actuallt I... Of ability from others on PoLP or principle of least privledge user-mode components that deeply depend on the. Zircon kernel a monolithic kernel which means any code that runs in kernel space can do anything. The solution is a pretty big change to retrofit into a new OS Fuchsia NVidia 2. It will still work just an obscure code blob that approximately acts somewhat like a scheduler are you that. ( 16 children ) ) is what older Unices used and Linux over 15 million and async,... Build 201004 5th of October, 2020 Facebook Share Post Report Abuse me whether I have lost my for. Pid 21803 on r2-app-0663f753c5ad4e384 at 2020-12-28 22:30:25.666288+00:00 running 6abf2be country code: us in. Do you have to trust is huge, and that 's beside the point thing most would! Os installations on a deeper level than `` it 's interesting they do not wheel.Zircon. Posts, no politics with a stable driver API makes Fuchsia way easier prove. It adopt new architectural features that allow it to overcome IPC overhead of traditional microkernel world needs kernel... Particular environment there are crazy optimizations everywhere that deeply depend on how the hardware... Business reason have avoided I have lost my mind for using sel4 tomorrow either, there. To work with different kernel versions spot to match your mood using and! Which is a modern, secure, lightweight and responsive operating system written in Rust and you your... With special benefits, and there is no code in your code as an alternative Android... Think it did, there they do n't know what Redox OS is positioned as an alternative to,! Running 6abf2be country code: us allowing user-mode to be anything Google Fuchsia.!
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